They announced that Frontier's Forums will be closing at the end of the month (six days from now...), and instead will rely on the community posting on Discord.

For many this isn't much of a change because you use Discord regularly. For others, Discord is just something we just don't use, even if we have an account, myself included.

I find the short notice a bit troubling, but honestly Frontier checked out community-wise ages ago...

sad

Just went out to check it out. There is also no threads for PC1, only PC2 and PZ.

I just find Discord terribly confusing. That's why I don't participate in the Discord we have for this site. Nothing against it or those who run it, it's just the nature of Discord itself and the way it's set up

For many people who are used to it, it's just second nature. But I'm used to the structure of a forums, it's laid out in a less confusing way, one can much easier scroll through posts and find what they want.

I also took a look at the PC Discord (I noticed a section for PC1 listed over on the left hand menu...). Someone had posted a screenshot of a realistic waterfall someone did and said it was from the Discord...do you think I could find it over there?

I'll stick to here and any news Frontier bothers to share on Facebook or email.

I made a post there, letting people know about this site, for those who don't like Discord, and it was immediately deleted by the mods. I complained, and that was immediately deleted by the mods and I was issued a warning. 😋

Edited July 25Jul 25 by shyguy

1 hour ago, Wowman said:

Just went out to check it out. There is also no threads for PC1, only PC2 and PZ.

From what I gather with the limited amount of information we are rationed, all the forums will move over to Discord. Not sure if this means old games that have been abandoned, like PC1, but possibly.

That's a bit of a surprise; it was pretty active, and Frontier used it for organized feedback and ideas. Thanks @shyguy for trying to spread the word of ParkCrafters on there!

I've sent out info on all the subreddits since we probably can't share on the Frontier forums, letting everyone know that ParkCrafters is here to stay for those who enjoy a forum site. I love forums and find them much easier and more organized than just a long string of chats like social media sites and chat software like Discord - I really dislike how unpopular forums are now. We normally just have a Discord for members to talk to each other and get on calls and host events, but the forums will always be here to stay for actual site and project updates and organization. Frontier is starting to remind me of Atari now...

10 minutes ago, wolfpaw said:

Frontier is starting to remind me of Atari now...

I used those exact words in my final post there...which was deleted.😁

I think Frontier mostly gets traffic on Twitch and other platforms in comparison to their forums. I honestly don't think I ever went on their forums.

So - on the forums....The clarified that only "new" games will move over and its because the community as a whole is not using the forums as much anymore. They said even old threads for these games will still be available to review and post to. They are just not letting NEW threads be opened.

And... the thing I struggle with on Discord is that the info is not organized as well....just a dump of information that you can't pick and choose what you want to spend more time on or see more of. Like if you want to follow a specific project. This is why when I post on ParkCrafters Discord, I always start with the name of my project....just to put some context to what a reader is looking at.

Yea, Discord is not a place for well-organized information, they tried adding a forum feature to it but I feel most users just ask things in general chats and it can get lost easily. This is why when I was creating ParkCrafters, I wanted best of both worlds and still created a forum for more organized projects and announcements and a Discord server for general chatting, voice calls, and livestreaming.

I haven't been active here for the past months (mix of stress and demotivation with the state of the genre), but wow, this is really bad news, so I thought I'd add my lines here.

I checked out Discord a few times and didn't really feel the wish to use it. I much prefer the structure and the usability of forums, so the closing of the official forum (as my main news source) is really a bad surprise for me, and I wasn't happy with PC2's development anyway. It's a bitter taste.

Glad to have ParkCrafters, and I hope we can get something positive out of the situation.

2 hours ago, wolfpaw said:

Yea, Discord is not a place for well-organized information, they tried adding a forum feature to it but I feel most users just ask things in general chats and it can get lost easily. This is why when I was creating ParkCrafters, I wanted best of both worlds and still created a forum for more organized projects and announcements and a Discord server for general chatting, voice calls, and livestreaming.

And thank you for doing this. I did figure out how to create a specific thread in Discord, say for my park project. Looks like you don't have that feature on yours's, but the participants are way lower, so not as bad to manage.

3 hours ago, Wowman said:

And thank you for doing this. I did figure out how to create a specific thread in Discord, say for my park project. Looks like you don't have that feature on yours's, but the participants are way lower, so not as bad to manage.

Yeah I originally didn't want to add this feature since we have the main forum site, I always envisioned Discord to just be the quick chat room companion to ParkCrafters main site. If there's a want and need for forums to be added to our Discord server in the future, I can look into it, but I doubt that will ever happen as long as this site is up.

I came across an old thread at Frontier that Wagi posted about the closing of SGW (thanks, Wagi). He listed ParkCrafters as the new site to replace SGW and it wasn't censored or deleted. That was 2 years ago. Today, I mention this forum and my post is instantly deleted. I don't mean to continue to harp on this, but it just shows how Frontier has changed for the worse. Even though I love their games, I've never warmed up to the company. I don't care for their business model of creating half a (buggy) game and then milking their players for years to buy the rest of the game in multitudes of over-prided DLCs. When SGW was around, devs from most of the games we supported personally reached out to me, like Parkitect and NoLimits. But not Frontier. And they were still a fairly small company back then. Now, I think they've gotten too big for their britches and are suffering for it...putting out too many games at one time, all with issues that are never fixed, and making stupid corporate decisions that make little sense. And their blatant lack of transparency is continuing to put off more and more of their playerbase. They went from being adored, when Planet Coaster was launched, to what they've become today. That's progress.

ps. I'm thoroughly enjoying the drama over there with the forum's eminent closure. I kind of feel sorry for the volunteer mods who have entered the fray and are also being attacked. And sorry for the members who are mourning the loss of a community forum, and I can't even tell them about this one.

That thought crossed my mind when I read your post about being censored over there...when did they change their rules? Several times I've mentioned other sites, both sgw and Parkcrafters without problem. I did mention 'other forums' in a post over there without stating the site name, that seemed to fly under the radar. I'm more surprised that when I compared what's happening with Frontier to what happened with Atari was allowed.

I definitely agree 100% with everything you just said.

And there is no doubt in my mind that the PC2 forums are closing because of the large amount of criticism directed at it on display. This BS about them moving their "new" games over to Discord doesn't ring true. Planet Zoo has its own section over there, and it is not a new game. Nor has the official Frontier Planet Zoo forum been closed. They are supporting both platforms. There is no rampant criticism of PZ on its forums. Mostly because the PZ devs can do no wrong in the eyes of its fan base, and rightly so, as the game is extremely well designed. Oh it has its little problems here and there, but it's very evident that the game was lovingly designed by devs passionate about the product. Too bad we don't see that same devotion to PC2. I can't see that it costs Frontier anything more to keep the forums open. It's a marketing decision, to shut it down and stop the potentially damaging (to sales) criticisms against the game.

I'm really curious to see how well the Jurassic World Evolution 3 launch goes. I wonder if they'll botch that as well, and then I'll enjoy watching its fan base turn on them.

Edited July 28Jul 28 by shyguy

Yes, I'm of the same opinion.

Someone over there made a comment about how game companies now are too often blaming a 'toxic community' for their problems, and as an excuse to limit communication. It's the old "Us vs them" mindset. One that reminds me so much of Atari, especially during the period of beta-testing RCT World, where at the end they simply had no desire what-so-ever to even hear any feedback, as they simply put - they knew better, and anyone who didn't agree was just an ungrateful whiner. I still recall how the head of Atari tried to pass the buck onto players rather than admitting it was their own decisions to blame. Never bought another thing from Atari (not that I'd actually have any reason to...)

Yes, some people can be demanding. Some people do not understand why something can't be done. Some people have unrealistic expectations.

But that's what the folks at game developers are paid to deal with, that's part of the territory. You take the slings and arrows along with the praise, and you deal with it. Make your customers feel like they are a part of the process...after all they ARE paying you for it. Acknowledge people's demands, explain why some things aren't possible, have a two-way conversation.

Frontier used to be good at that.

I think part of our dissatisfaction is that many of us badly want that ultimate realistic theme park sandbox builder and simulation... and Frontier - while in theory able to make it possible - apparently not wanting Planet Coaster 2 to be that.

The comic style that was there from the start is even more obvious in PC2, with a more flat look and less visual realism, so "realism" doesn't seem to be their aspiration in other aspects of the game, either. Way too much work was put into details of entertainers, which can be translated as "it's us who are doing the art, and not giving you all the elementary 'theme park tools' for you being the artist."

Some aspects of the game were excessively taken care of, while other basic essential aspects were ignored.

It's so sad really, we've been waiting for so many years now for something that meets RCT3's standard (including user content) regarding ride variety. I even find RCT3 to be more atmospheric than any Planet Coaster game. Of course, the grid and the lack of an undo button were some of the biggest downsides of RCT3, but Planet Coaster 1 and 2 had their own reasons why they didn't surpass RCT3's popularity in our community.

I just wish we'd finally get a game with the perfect mix of realism, features and usability, without losing the fun of a snappy game, which was last found in RCT1 and 2.

It's perfectly possible, which makes it even more painful that it isn't striven for (by Frontier), and us not listened to. And the closure of the official forum is the ultimate unmistakable punch. So sad.

The genre deserves better.

2 hours ago, TrimoParks said:

I think part of our dissatisfaction is that many of us badly want that ultimate realistic theme park sandbox builder and simulation... and Frontier - while in theory able to make it possible - apparently not wanting Planet Coaster 2 to be that.

The comic style that was there from the start is even more obvious in PC2, with a more flat look and less visual realism, so "realism" doesn't seem to be their aspiration in other aspects of the game, either. Way too much work was put into details of entertainers, which can be translated as "it's us who are doing the art, and not giving you all the elementary 'theme park tools' for you being the artist."

I wish they'd move away from the comic style as well. There are so many objects and elements that I avoid using because of the cartoony brands and as well as the Planet Coaster 2 logo that seems to be added to way more items in this game than in the first. I don't want Chief Beef in any of my parks, thank you.

I do agree that there are some very talented artists and animators over at Frontier. Too bad those that design the game mechanics and management elements aren't as talented. None of Frontier games have any depth to the management aspects. Even the Jurassic World Evolution franchise, which is a management sim much more than a sandbox game, has very basic and repetitive gameplay, with hardly any challenge. They may not be great game makes, but they really make some great and addictive toys.

As far as any other realistic theme park sims out there, there's a small independent startup company developing a game called Megaparks. They are passionate about creating the ultimate theme park sim, with plans to include all the features fans are crying for that Frontier will never add to Planet Coaster. They are a group who have played the PC games extensively, and want to expand on everything those games do and add what they don't. Whatever becomes of this project, well, we'll just have to wait and see. Sadly, it failed to generate the funds it was asking for on Kickstarter, so it's not getting a great start, although they stated that the game will continue development, regardless. I'm not sure the game will ever see the light of day, or if it does, it could end up being another Theme Park Studio. We'll see.

One thing that bothered me on the first game was the lack of standardization through different themes. I recall there was a great thread over at the Frontier forums that showed exactly what was missing from different themes that appeared in other themes. That was something important for people (i.e. most of us...) who pick and choose scenery items from different theme sets when building structures, etc.

But that thread was pretty much totally ignored by Frontier, even as they released DLC and updates.

Unfortunately we see the exact same problem in PC2...missing basic pieces. One would assume that the staff designing what goes into each theme would have some sort of master checklist, which outlines all the basic pieces each and every theme set should have - one of the top of my head it the 4h rough brick end gable. They do have the 2h version, they have the 2h roof, they have the 4h roof, but the 4h end gable isn't there. Why? Either they have no master checklist to refer to, or they have different people doing different parts of that theme and there's a lack of communication between them. That's just sloppy quality control. Something I think is more evident in PC2 than the first one...

Yeah, TPS was a disappointment. I think I finally got the t-shirt and poster from the Kickstarter a couple years after it was 'done'. Your World just didn't interest me. Metaparks looked promising, but so did several other that just didn't come to pass sadly...

Standardization is a big problem...in all the Planet games. Also in naming of objects. Try finding a certain sized beam in Planet Zoo. Some are called "beams", some are called "posts", some are called "planks", some are called "cladding" and some have names I can't even remember. And has anyone noticed that there are duplicate objects in PC2? Many objects that were included in the base game were just renamed objects from the other themes. When they added the old themes, we got those objects again. I'm sure different devs work on the different DLCs, without bothering to check on, or create, any type of master list or naming convention.

Not to start a disagreement here....just voicing my opinion. I actually like the look of the game. Its one of the things that attracted me in the first place. Are some of the mascots a bit out there? Yes, but I think Frontier made it clear right from the beginning that branding items in the game was here to stay. I learned to live with it.

As far as inconsistencies...not uncommon in the dev world at all. I deal with this every day in my real job. Devs do what they want, or what they perceive is needed, or what is easiest for them to do. The problem lies in not the individual devs, but the leaders. Is there is not a check list that is worked from? Are there not standards for them to follow? If there is....they are not being followed or checked before release? Is it right?...No way...but again, I have learned to live it. Just ask to have it corrected, and wait and see. Sounds pretty much what is happening here as well. The big difference is...customers are paying for the inconsistency. Yes, its lack of communication and attention to 'all' the details. Maybe a missing role to make sure that Ts are crossed and Is are dotted?

While I may not be fully happy with how things are handled all the time, I still feel that game as a whole does have a lot to offer (at least for me). I will take what get and make the most of it. These Planet games are all I play and enjoy playing...so I will keep it up as long as I can.

Here's to hoping to a better future in these games.

I've left my thoughts on the official forum regarding the closure of their community forums. I'm hoping that many read and try out ParkCrafters here, as I do really love the forum layout for this community.

Planet Coaster 2 is currently the best theme park building game out there...is it perfect? Not by any means, but it's the best one we've got right now. The cartoonish look, I'm sure they opted for so the game could age better in the future, as these 'cel-shaded' styles have an almost timeless look to them. I'm keeping an eye on Metaparks, but I'm cautious about it... I really hope it doesn't turn into another Unreal Engine mess mixed with what Theme Park Studio turned out to be.

My only hope is that Frontier doesn't delete my post and that they realize fan-made communities such as this one are the ones that will keep this game relevant and active for many years. I hope that their developers and community leaders visit these types of sites and actively listen to what their actual active and dedicated player base is saying, rather than just blindly following whatever is said on their official Discord server.